The Ship of Theseus.

[notdogmatic]

During recent events, people on this island now remember experiences held by physically identical beings around a physically identical island.  While these entities were polysemic -- that is, they shared the same names as the individuals now possessing those memories --  were these people themselves the ones who experienced life as pirates?  Or were those experiences passed to them by distinct iterations of the same genetic pattern exposed to different circumstances?

If the construction of self is a matter of the accumulation of thought and sense memories which form a personality,  would an individual with an entirely distinct set of memories be considered the same person, even if both sets of experience were imprinted on the same brain tissue within a singular body?

Comments

[callbacks]

uh
i had to read that like three times but i think your answers no

[notdogmatic]

I see.

Would the same be true of an amnesiac? Would such a person even be said to possess an identity?

[callbacks]

well yeah
i mean theyd still have a personality
and theyd start getting new memories pretty much right away
i think you lost me

[notdogmatic]

The idea of "self" which we have is constructed based on our memories. We think of our self as the being who experienced those events.

If you change someone's memories, are they a different person? I do not mean "will they behave or react differently," but "should we consider them to be a being with the same identity as the previous one?"

[callbacks]

oh
ok i have kind of a weird perspective on this maybe because of the time thing
im used to seeing like twenty versions of myself running around being chill as fuck and totally awesome
and like i know theyre all me
like ill become them or i already was them
but i still think of them as other mes because im me
so theyre future me or past me or dead alternate future me

[callbacks]

i guess for me even one seconds difference is enough to count as a different self that im just constantly turning into
the zen ninja masters probably have something to say about that but really its just the practical way to think about it

[callbacks]

also karkats dream is to have rage makeout aneurysms with himself
hes holding out for some hot window fogging karkat on karkat action
that probably requires some dissociation on his part regarding selves and whatever
dont take that away from him

[notdogmatic]

I see.

[callbacks]

why what do you think

[notdogmatic]

At times I am uncertain.

While unlike yourself and Miss Megido I do not directly manipulate time, I have experienced a similar course of events multiple times, and found that the motivation behind my choices was similar each time despite different circumstances, and different choices as well. I have taken this consistency of intent s continuity of self.

It is possible, instead, that there have been other Kaworus, making their own choices, who have merely shared the results of those choices with my present consciousness, and informed my choices in that way.

The nature of my biology is such that it is difficult to be certain of my fundamental singularity of self.

[maiditoutalive]

well isnt that a subjective question?

[notdogmatic]

Is there another kind?

[maiditoutalive]

well it sounds like you might have wanted a more objective answer
i am just trying to figure out what would be the best way to put it to you depending on what you are actually trying to ask

[notdogmatic]

I am curious to know others' perceptions. Do we remember the lives of pirates? Or were we pirates ourselves with changed minds? What makes us the same as or different from these different versions of people with our names and bodies but a distinct narrative?

If the question takes on different meaning for different individuals, then that is worth examining as well. Please answer it as seems best to you.

[maiditoutalive]

oh ok so its a philosophical exercise
since i was never a pirate but only pretending i cant talk about that
but at any given moment in time for a time player or someone used to creating stable time loops which result in the creation of several alternate versions of selves
i would say that those selves operating within the same timeline as me are not different individuals
or rather they are in the sense that they are not me as i currently experience myself depending on which you ask about the question but they are either a past version of me or a version of me i will become so they are still me
even if i have not experienced their distinct narrative
in the same vein an alternate timeline version of myself is still me but a different me though i may not remember her life at all
but she is separate and autonomous even if no less a valid version of aradia megido despite her eventual death to preserve the timelines without causing a paradox
but the case of pirates seems different from that
there was no creation of an autonomous version of ourselves
everyone who believed it remembers it but ceased to believe it and now still remembers being a pirate without considering it a valid alternate self
and i would say that unless you have actually lived experiences just believing that you have lived them is maybe not enough to create an alternate version of you

[notdogmatic]

I see.

Can we be certain that the people who remember a lifetime of piracy did not, in fact, live that life?

Additionally, what if you perceive a discontinuity in the narrative? For example, if you remember living and dyi8ng in several worlds with fundamentally different truths than those you presently experience? Are you the same self that experienced those events, or simply a self who has retained the memories of previous or alternate iterative selves?

[maiditoutalive]

either!
or both as the case may be
it would depend on the situation
and i dont know you would have to ask someone who remembers a lifetime of piracy
but i am fairly sure the people i know such as karkat would consider it utterly invalid

[notdogmatic]

I will broaden my search.

[weaponxx]

Yes.

[notdogmatic]

If so, then what is intrinsic to identity?

[weaponxx]

I have found that it is the sense of self. In essence, you are intrinsic. The choices you make and the things that you do are what makes you a 'you'.

[notdogmatic]

If you is intrinsic, how do we define you in the absence of common baselines such as memory and experience? Is it the body or brain? The choices which someone makes are influenced by all these factors, so action itself must have a separate anchor if it is decision and action which define self.

[weaponxx]

I have been told it is the presence of a 'soul'.

[notdogmatic]

I see.

That is a good definition. Everything which possesses a self is in possession of a soul.

[weaponxx]

[ That causes her pause. ] Yes.