thoughtformed | PRETEND I POSTED THIS 10/18/12 BECAUSE I MEANT TO AND I FORGOT.

Is there like a troll doctor he could get help from about that? There's obviously some deep rooted issues relating to frogs here...

no, it sort of is normal.
this happens a lot, don't worry about it.

Should that really be something that happens? It's kind of really insane.

Nobody warned me about this.

you're right, karkat should come with warnings.
"warning: contents under pressure may explode if shaken or disturbed."
but seriously, chill out.
he is fine.

That's fine?

yeah, think of how much worse it would be if he kept that in any longer!
just trust me.

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thneed - 2012-10-20 20:12 (UTC) - Expand

he has a murderous idiot for a moirail but other than that
wwe let him havve his moments
its part a his leadership process

Murderous moirail? What's that mean? What's a moirail?

kar you can handle this

Hey wait. Why are you passing me off? Is it bad? It's bad, isn't it?

Is a moirail an evil monstrous frog?

no this is just his favvorite shit to get all knowwitall about
notgonna deprivve him a that

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maiditoutalive - 2012-11-05 02:30 (UTC) - Expand

OK, I'M STEPPING IN HERE.
BUT FIRST SOME CLARIFICATION: NO, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FROGS, DAMMIT.
FORGET THE FROGS.
ALSO GAMZEE ISN'T MURDEROUS ANYMORE.
HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING SINCE COMING HERE EXCEPT BE A LITTLE WEIRD.
IT'S NOT LIKE THAT'S AGAINST WHATEVER RIDICULOUS LAWS NEW MOORE MANDATES.
I'M NOT EVEN CONVINCED THEY HAVE SUBSTANTIAL LAWS OTHER THAN "DON'T BLOW SHIT UP" AND "DON'T KILL EACH OTHER" WHICH ARE PRETTY SIMPLE AND GAMZEE HASN'T VIOLATED EITHER ONE.
THE LAST THING HE DID THAT WAS FUCKED UP WAS THAT THING WITH THE BALLPIT.
I DON'T FEEL LIKE TALKING ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT STILL CREEPS ME OUT A LITTLE, BUT EVEN THAT DOESN'T MATTER SINCE THEY RENOVATED.
NOTHING IS WRONG NOW. MOVING ON.

"MOIRAIL" IS ONE OF THE QUADRANTS DEFINED BY TROLL CULTURE.
IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS MAKE SENSE, I NEED TO EXPLAIN A BIT ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CONCUPISCENT QUADRANTS AND CONCILIATORY QUADRANTS AND THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN RED ROMANCE AND BLACK ROMANCE.
LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE SO YOU CAN VISUALIZE THIS.
IMAGINE A SPHERE. THE SPHERE IS CUT IN HALF HORIZONTALLY.
THE TOP REPRESENTS "RED ROMANCE", WHICH IS DOMINATED BY PITY. THIS HALF CONTAINS MATESPRITSHIP AND MOIRALLEGIANCE.
THE BOTTOM REPRESENTS "BLACK ROMANCE", WHICH IS DOMINATED BY HATE. KISMESISSITUDES AND AUSPISTICISM ARE CONTAINED IN HIS HALF.
HATE AND PITY ARE THE PRIMARY EMOTIONS MOTIVATING TROLLS TO SEEK RELATIONSHIPS WITH EACH OTHER.
NOW LET'S TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER AND DIVIDE THE IMAGINARY SPHERE VERTICALLY AT THE CENTER.
THE LEFT HALF REPRESENTS THE CONCUPISCENT QUADRANTS, WHICH HOLDS MATESPRITSHIPS AND KISMESISSITUDES.
THE RIGHT HALF REPRESENTS THE CONCILIATORY QUADRANTS, HOLDING MOIRALLEGIANCE AND AUSPISTICISM.
SO BASICALLY YOU'VE GOT EVERYTHING IN NEAT, EASY-TO-UNDERSTAND COMPARTMENTS LIKE THIS:

REDROM
PITY

MATESPRITSHIP | MOIRALLEGIANCE
CONCUPISCENT ------------------------------- CONCILIATORY
KISMESISSITUDE | AUSPISTICISM

HATE
BLACKROM

JUST IMAGINE THE CHART AS MORE EVEN, OK?

MATESPRITSHIP IS SOMETIMES CALLED THE FLUSHED QUADRANT. LIKE I'VE SAID, IT'S A CONCUPISCENT QUADRANT.
THE CONCUPISCENT QUADRANTS ARE RELATED TO WHAT'S KNOWN BY TROLLS AS "MATING FONDNESS."
IF A TROLL TALKS ABOUT HAVING "FLUSHED" FEELINGS FOR SOMEONE, IT'S A REFERENCE TO MATESPRITSHIP, BUT IF THEY MENTION HAVING "RED" FEELINGS FOR SOMEONE, YOU CAN'T AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME IT'S RELATED TO THIS QUADRANT.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO CLARIFY WHETHER THEIR FEELINGS ARE CONCUPISCENT OR CONCILIATORY -- OR "FLUSHED" OR "PALE".
IF YOU'RE WONDERING WHAT "PALE" IS, I'LL GET TO IT IN A SECOND.
FROM WHAT I'VE LEARNED ABOUT HUMAN CULTURE FROM BEING HERE ALMOST AN ENTIRE SWEEP, ITS CLOSEST EQUIVALENT IS "LOVE" BUT EVEN THAT'S NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE.
"LOVE" DOESN'T ACTUALLY EXPLAIN ANYTHING.
I THOUGHT IT WAS PRETTY STRAIGHT-FORWARD AND ALL YOU GUYS HAD WAS SOME GENERIC DESCRIPTION FOR YOUR RELATIONSHIPS THAT MADE THEM PRETTY SHALLOW AND BARELY EVEN ONE DIMENSIONAL.
IT TURNS OUT IT'S NOT REALLY LIKE THAT.
IT'S NOT EXACTLY RICH AND COMPLICATED WITH MEANING LIKE TROLL RELATIONSHIPS, BUT IT IS AN ABSOLUTE FUCKING MESS.
FOR INSTANCE, "LOVE" CAN MEAN A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. BASICALLY ANYONE COULD SAY "I LOVE YOU" TO SOMEONE ELSE AND IT WOULD BE VIEWED AS ACCEPTABLE. HUMAN WIGGLERS SAY IT TO THEIR HUMAN LUSII. IT'S NOT ALL THAT UNCOMMON FOR HUMANS TO SAY IT TO EACH OTHER WHEN THEY'RE ENGAGED IN A "DATING" RELATIONSHIP OR "MARRIED", WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE "LOVE" A HUMAN WIGGLER HAS FOR HUMAN LUSII.
SOME FRIENDS SAY IT TO EACH OTHER. HUMANS EVEN SAY IT TO THEIR HUMAN PETS OR ABOUT BASICALLY ANYTHING IN THEIR SURROUNDINGS. "I LOVE THIS CHAIR" AND WHAT NOT.
IT'S JUST A COMPLETE FUCKING MESS, BUT FOR EVERY SHALLOW MEANING IT MIGHT POSSIBLY HAVE A DEEPER APPLICATION? I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU GUYS MAKE EVERYTHING SO STUPID.
SO ESSENTIALLY: MATESPRITSHIP IS COMPLEX AND DIVERSE IN WAYS YOU'LL NEVER UNDERSTAND AND IS A LOT SUPERIOR TO YOUR HUMAN SENTIMENT OF "LOVE" AND ETC, BUT AFTER SOME TIME HERE, I'VE DECIDED HUMAN "LOVE" ISN'T ENTIRELY WITHOUT MERIT.
BUT THAT HAS NO PLACE IN THIS DISCUSSION. MOVING ON AGAIN.

Edited (MINOR REDUNDANCY EDIT.) 2012-10-21 09:05 (UTC)

MOIRALLEGIANCE CAN BE CALLED THE PALE QUADRANT. LIKE WITH MATESPRITSHIP, IF SOMEONE TALKS ABOUT "PALE" FEELINGS, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS, ALTHOUGH LIKE I SAID ABOVE, IF THEY'RE MENTIONING "RED" FEELINGS, MOIRALLEGIANCE COULD ALSO COVER THAT AND THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO SPECIFY. THIS IS A CONCILIATORY QUADRANT AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MATING FONDNESS.
A LOT OF TROLLS FUCK THIS ONE UP.
SOMETIMES THEY TRY TO ENGAGE IN A MATESPRITSHIP BUT THE OTHER TROLL ASSUMES THEIR ROMANTIC LEANINGS ARE MORE PALE. IT CAN BE VICE VERSA, SUCH AS A TROLL TRYING TO ENGAGE IN A PALE RELATIONSHIP BUT THE OTHER TROLL HAVING REDDER FEELINGS THAT LEAN TOWARD FLUSHED.
IT CAN GET PRETTY COMPLICATED, BUT LET'S ASSUME IN MY EXPLANATION THAT THE TWO TROLLS ENGAGING IN THIS RELATIONSHIP HAVE NOTHING BUT PALE FEELINGS.
AS FAR AS I KNOW, THERE AREN'T ANY HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS THAT ENCOMPASS EVERYTHING MOIRAILS SHOULD BE TO EACH OTHER. I DON'T EVEN KNOW OF MANY HUMANS WHO WOULD ACTIVELY BENEFIT FROM HAVING A MOIRAIL. I CAN ONLY NAME ONE OFF-HAND. POSSIBLY TWO, BUT ONE I CAN'T SAY IF IT'S A FOR SURE THING YET.
OVERALL, IT'S LIKELY HAVING MOIRAILS WOULDN'T BENEFIT A HUMAN SOCIETY, BUT THEIR CONTRIBUTION TO TROLL SOCIETY IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
OR WAS BEFORE IT WAS OBLITERATED, BUT I'M GOING TO KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT THE WAY IT'S RELEVANT TO OUR CULTURE SO DEAL WITH THE PRESENT TENSE.
IN ORDER FOR THE RELATIONSHIP TO BE SUCCESSFUL, IT HELPS IF THE MOIRAILS DIRECTLY CATER TO EACH OTHER'S STRENGTHS.
A TROLL WHO WOULD OTHERWISE BE A COMPLETE MENACE IN SOCIETY AND DISRUPT THE SOCIAL ORDER COULD BE PLACATED BY A STEADY MOIRAIL, YET STILL POSSESS THE QUALITIES NECESSARY TO PLACATE THE CALMER TROLL WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS TO UPSET THEM.
AN IDEAL MOIRALLEGIANCE BENEFITS BOTH OF THE TROLLS INVOLVED IN THE RELATIONSHIP.
THEY LOOK OUT FOR THE OTHER'S BEST INTERESTS.

Edited (SHIT, COHERENCY EDIT AGAIN.) 2012-10-21 09:09 (UTC)

I COULD TECHNICALLY STOP HERE SINCE I JUST EXPLAINED WHAT MOIRAILS ARE, BUT I ALREADY EXPLAINED MATESPRITSHIP SO I GUESS I'LL KEEP GOING.

ON THE SIDE OF BLACKROM, THE CONCUPISCENT QUADRANT -- A QUADRANT LINKED TO "MATING FONDNESS" AS I'VE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED -- IS CALLED KISMESISSITUDE.
THIS IS KNOWN AS THE CALIGINOUS QUADRANT. A TROLL WHO HAS "BLACK" FEELINGS MIGHT HAVE CALIGINOUS FEELINGS, BUT THEY COULD ALSO BE ASHEN.
AGAIN, IT'S IMPORTANT TO SPECIFY EVEN IF THE CALIGINOUS AND ASHEN QUADRANTS ARE BOTH LINKED WITH HATRED SINCE THE ASHEN SIDE DOESN'T DEAL WITH MATING FONDNESS. THE OTHER IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER IS A KISMESISSITUDE CAN'T BE FORMED WITH PLATONIC HATRED, WHICH IS SOMETHING ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.
IN ORDER FOR THE KISMESISSITUDE TO WORK, BOTH PARTIES NEED TO FEEL TRUE HATRED FOR EACH OTHER.
I TRY TO DISCOURAGE THE OTHERS FROM MAKING ATTEMPTS ENGAGING IN KISMESISSITUDES WITH HUMANS BECAUSE HUMANS ARE COMPLETELY INCAPABLE OF THIS RELATIONSHIP. I MEAN, I'VE TRIED. IT WAS ULTIMATELY A PRETTY SHITTY TRY ON MY PART SINCE I DON'T THINK I EVER FELT ANY KIND OF GENUINE HATRED TO BEGIN WITH, BUT EVEN IF I DID I CAN SAFELY SAY IT JUST WOULDN'T WORK.
GIVEN THE VIOLENT NATURE OF TROLL CULTURE, KISMESISSITUDES MAY INCLUDE ONE ATTEMPTING TO KILL THE OTHER IN A FASHION THEY ULTIMATELY TRUST THE OTHER TROLL WILL ESCAPE FROM SINCE OUTRIGHT KILLING THEM WOULD BE THE END OF THE RELATIONSHIP AND THAT'S NOT THE POINT.
IT'S LIKE A RIVALRY, EXCEPT A LOT BETTER AND WAY MORE FASCINATING.
IN CONCLUSION: IT'S A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH A LOT OF REALLY RICH DYNAMICS. THEY'RE PRETTY INTERESTING TO WATCH, BUT IT'S ONE I THINK IS BEST LEFT FOR TROLLS TO HAVE WITH OTHER TROLLS.
HUMANS DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MERIT OF A GOOD KISMESISSITUDE.

Edited (HOLY SHIT I AM SO SORRY ABOUT YOUR INBOX BECAUSE OF MY GRAMMAR EDITS. I HAVE A PROBLEM OK???) 2012-10-21 09:12 (UTC)

AUSPISTICISM IS THE CONCILIATORY QUADRANT ON THE SIDE OF BLACK ROMANCE, KNOWN AS THE ASHEN QUADRANT. HUMANS HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME GRASPING THIS ONE FOR SOME REASON, SO I'LL TRY TO EXPLAIN IT THE BEST I CAN.
AGAIN, TO HAVE BLACK FEELINGS FOR SOMEONE COULD INCLUDE THIS QUADRANT AND NOT THE CALIGINOUS QUADRANT. AS ALWAYS, IT'S GOOD TO CLARIFY IF SOMEONE ISN'T BEING SPECIFIC.
AN AUSPISTICE'S JOB IS PRETTY MUCH THANKLESS.
MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, THEY DON'T REALLY GET ANYTHING OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP OTHER THAN THE SATISFACTION THEIR MEDDLING GIVES THEM FROM KEEPING A PAIR OF TROLLS FROM DELVING INTO A KISMESISSITUDE.
HUMANS HAVE A HARD TIME SEEING WHY THIS IS NECESSARY. THEY THINK, WHY NOT LET THE RELATIONSHIP CRASH INTO KISMESISSITUDE?
THE ANSWER IS THIS: IF AUSPISTICES JUST LET EVERYONE ENGAGE IN KISMESISSITUDES WHENEVER THEY FELT LIKE IT, THERE WOULD BE WIDESPREAD BLACK INFIDELITY. LIKE SERIOUSLY, THAT SHIT WOULD BE ALL OVER.
YOU CAN'T BE IN TWO KISMESISSITUDES. IT'S JUST NOT RIGHT -- BUT YOU CAN BE INVOLVED WITH AN AUSPISTICISM AND HAVE A KISMESISSITUDE.
IF WE LET BLACK INFIDELITY BE A PROBLEM, IT WOULD PROMOTE BITTERNESS AND THE WHOLE THING WOULD JUST TURN INTO A HUGE MESS AND GET WILDLY OUT OF HAND. NOT EVEN JUST IN A COMMON DECENCY SENSE, BUT CAN YOU IMAGINE HOW MANY EGOS IT WOULD BRUISE AND HOW MUCH TROUBLE IT WOULD CAUSE?
IT WOULD BE A FUCKING NIGHTMARE.
IN AUSPISTICISM, THERE ARE THREE TROLLS INVOLVED. IN A TRUE AUSPISTICIZED RELATIONSHIP, ONLY ONE OF THE TROLLS INVOLVED IS THE AUSPISTICE.
SO WHILE THE AUSPISTICE IS IN AN AUSPISTICISM, THE OTHER TWO TROLLS IN THE AUSPISTICISM AREN'T AUSPISTICES EVEN IF THEY'RE ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN THE RELATIONSHIP.
A PERSON WHO ACTS LIKE A MEDIATOR IS THE CLOSEST HUMAN EQUIVALENT I'VE FOUND TO THIS RELATIONSHIP.

Edited (WRONG ICON DAMMIT.) 2012-10-21 09:14 (UTC)

NOW THAT I'VE GIVEN YOU THE BASICS, I CAN TELL YOU THE QUADRANTS ARE PRETTY VOLATILE. SOME TROLLS OSCILLATE BETWEEN RED AND BLACK FEELINGS FOR ONE ANOTHER. IT'S NOT UNCOMMON TO FIND KISMESIS AND MATESPRIT DOUBLE REACHAROUND PAIRINGS.
THERE'S ALSO THE MATTER THAT YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE TROLL IN ONE QUADRANT AT ANY GIVEN TIME -- THE ONE NOTABLE EXCEPTION BEING AUSPISTICISM, SINCE THAT OUTRIGHT INVOLVES TWO TROLLS FROM THE START.
DESPITE THAT RULE, THE SAME TROLL CAN BE IN DIFFERENT QUADRANTS.
FOR FURTHER ELABORATION, LET'S LOOK AT TWO EXAMPLES.
IN THE FIRST, LET'S SAY I HAVE A MATESPRIT. I CAN'T HAVE ANOTHER MATESPRIT, BUT I CAN HAVE A KISMESIS AND THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE. IN FACT, IN TROLL CULTURE, IT'S ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO FILL THE CALIGINOUS AND FLUSHED QUADRANTS.
I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO WHY BECAUSE THAT JUST OPENS THE HUMAN "FLOODGATES" TO ANOTHER HUGE CONVERSATION AND I'VE FOUND YOU GUYS TAKE INFORMATION IN BETTER IN SMALL DOSES, SO MAYBE GET BACK TO ME LATER AND I'LL TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT, OK?
ANYWAY, I COULD ALSO HAVE A MOIRAIL AND I COULD BE ENGAGING IN SOME STEAMY BUDDING BLACK RELATIONSHIP WITH ANOTHER TROLL. A DIFFERENT TROLL SEES THIS AND THEN STEPS IN TO AUSPISTICIZE TO KEEP ME FROM FUCKING UP MY KISMESISSITUDE.
IN THIS EXAMPLE, THERE ARE FIVE DIFFERENT TROLLS IN MY QUADRANTS.
ONE MATESPRIT, ONE KISMESIS, ONE MOIRAIL, ONE AUSPISTICE AND ANOTHER TROLL INVOLVED IN THE AUSPISTICISM.

HERE'S THE SECOND, WHICH WILL ILLUSTRATE WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE SAME TROLL BEING IN DIFFERENT QUADRANTS.
LET'S SAY I HAVE A MATESPRIT, BUT WE'RE ENGAGED IN A DOUBLE REACHAROUND PAIRING. THAT ALSO MAKES THEM MY KISMESIS.
I HAVE A MOIRAIL WHO TAKES IT A STEP UP AND DECIDES TO AUSPISTICIZE WHEN I SHOW BLACK LEANINGS TOWARD ANOTHER TROLL.
IN THIS EXAMPLE, THERE ARE ONLY THREE TROLLS IN MY QUADRANTS DESPITE THEM ALL BEING FILLED.

Edited 2012-10-21 08:48 (UTC)

OK, THIS WAS A PRETTY BRIEF SUMMARY BUT I THINK I'VE MANAGED TO COVER IT AS CONCISELY AS I POSSIBLY COULD.
IF YOU NEED ME TO EXPAND OR CLARIFY ON ANY ASPECTS OF ANY QUADRANT, JUST ASK.

So you... only pity or hate someone? You don't like them?

NO, NO. TROLLS EXPERIENCE A LOT OF DIFFERENT EMOTIONS, TOO.
IT'S JUST THESE ARE THE PRIMARY MOTIVATIONAL FORCES BEHIND MOST OF WHAT WE DO.
YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER NONE OF THIS STUFF IS MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
YOU CAN LIKE SOMEONE AND PITY THEM. YOU CAN ALSO HATE SOMEONE AND PITY THEM SOMETIMES.
YOU CAN EVEN HATE SOMEONE AND STILL LIKE THEM FOR WHATEVER REASON, SUCH AS ENJOYING THE WAY THEY SEEM TO BE A PERFECTLY CRAFTED CREATION AT WHICH TO DIRECT YOUR MOST VISCERAL HATRED. YOU COULD EVEN LIKE HOW THEY LOOK OR HOW THEY INTERACT WITH OTHERS; FINDING REALLY ADMIRABLE QUALITIES ABOUT THEM, ALL WHILE TRULY HATING EVERYTHING ABOUT IT IN THE SAME BREATH.
IT'S PRETTY COMPLICATED, BUT DON'T WORRY IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.
I REALLY DON'T THINK HUMANS ARE CUT OUT FOR IT.